Dulma Altan is the founder of Makelane, a platform for accelerating women-owned businesses. She’s also the founder of Potion, the world’s first clean fragrance retail store. Dulma has a unique birds-eye perspective in helping a wide array of ecommerce brands, in different niches and at different stages of growth. She shares her perspectives on how these brands can differentiate, which she distills down to three things: commerce (the product), community, and content. She shares her own experiences and lessons in building a great online community, and which brands do a great job of this today. And she highlights her own journey and challenges in launching her own ecommerce product, Potion.
Highlights:
6:31 - how to stand out with authenticity - create belonging and community
8:07 - Why the brand story is so critical to differentiation
13:27 - How to create a great community online
20: 49 - Why customer education is a big challenge in natural perfumes
24:27 - 3 Ideas for companies to start in the fragrance niche
LINKS
Gen Furukawa: [00:01:26] alright, thanks so much. So today we have Dulma Altan who runs Makelane. She started her own e-commerce brand of natural fragrances and is just really doing an amazing thing in terms of building a locus, a community for female entrepreneurs, specifically in the D To C e-commerce space.
So Dulma, thanks so much for joining.
Dulma Altan: [00:01:50] of course happy to be here.
Gen Furukawa: [00:01:51] Yeah. And a small fun fact is that we actually connected in an eCommerce group, but we went to the same college, a decade apart, but that that's really cool. so can we start with Makelane and kind of like at a high level, what you're doing and what your vision is with this?
Dulma Altan: [00:02:10] Totally. So Makelane is an online education platform for accelerating women owned brands. And e-commerce and DTC. So what we do is we bring guest speakers who are experts in their fields and have them teach about the subtopics within any commerce that are most helpful to women starting out and looking to grow their businesses.
So for example, we've had. You know, Nick Sharma teach how to launch a DTC brand. We had Emily Heyward, lead a workshop on branding for DTC. we've had things on Facebook ads and, you know, profit margin. So it's really all about how do we create an online platform that makes it super easy to access all the knowledge you need to start and scale your eCommerce business in one place.
Gen Furukawa: [00:02:52] Yeah. One that I saw was Taylor Holiday. And I think that that was more of maybe an ad hoc and a conversation live Q and a, but there were a lot of really meaty takeaways and it was all very tactical, which I think is great.
Dulma Altan: [00:03:05] was a good one. I mean, Taylor holiday is just, just has a wealth of insight and he's so generous with it. So that was a really good one.
Gen Furukawa: [00:03:12] Yeah, so anybody can join. I just looked at the application. You basically go from prelaunch to over a million dollars a year. Is there any particular sweet spot of the types of companies that you can be most helpful with?
Dulma Altan: [00:03:26] Yeah. So we have two things going on under the Makelane umbrella. One is our paid membership, which we launched a little over four weeks ago. So for that, we generally like to focus on, women who are post launch with their brands or about to launch. So everything is kind of focused on how do we help you grow?
How do we give you the resources and the knowledge and the step-by-step actionable info you need? To grow your business. And so it's going to be more relevant for people who are, in that post-launch stage, whether you're just starting out or whether you're, you know, at six or seven figures, our free community, our private free community of women e-commerce founders, which is, now at over 1100 women all around the world.
That is for really anyone you can be at the idea stage, you can be, you know, seven figures on track to hit eight, and everything in between.
Gen Furukawa: [00:04:12] Okay. That actually goes by a separate name though, right?
Dulma Altan: [00:04:15] It does. Yeah, it's called commerce club. And the reason is because I actually started the community long before I had the idea for make lane and the community inspired the idea for the platform.
Gen Furukawa: [00:04:23] Okay. So within the make lane group, I saw there are companies, I think it's called bloom bra. There's a women's razor company. There was a, like a soap and candle company. Have you seen any brands that you'd like to call out in terms of the marketing that they're doing, that stands out from their competition?
Dulma Altan: [00:04:48] That's a good question. I mean, we have so many interesting brands in our private committee, unity and our membership, in terms of marketing, I mean, some of them are doing creative things, but I would say, you know, the ones who are growing, they're really using the tried and true channels of paid ads and email and content marketing.
A lot of them are really savvy with Instagram and social media marketing. You know, Bloom Bras, the one you just called out actually before COVID they did a lot of popups and they were really successful with that. So, I think they were really good at leveraging, offline and sort of in person events to create a connection with their brand because they're also selling bras.
And so you kind of have to try them on. So, that was interesting. So it kind of runs the gamut, depends on the brand, but, by and large, they, they do sort of, the things that are working for them brands today.
Gen Furukawa: [00:05:39] Yeah, I think that's one of the really interesting things about digitally native brands is that they can get so niche. Another one that comes to mind is I think it's called ULA bell. Oola bell, and it's just, it's for, it's a product for niche. I think young millennial, mothers, and baby products that are relevant to them.
I think that's where DTC can really thrive in where they can find their niche, their audience, whether it's organic, social paid social, and then just kind of like go deep there and then expand out whether it's an audience or, in product line.
Dulma Altan: [00:06:13] Yeah, I think that's true. And what's really special about a lot of the brands in our community is that they are, generally I wouldn't say all of them are mission-driven, but they all have some sort of a message they want to share or some kind of, value. that they're trying to embody through their business.
And I think when you have that at the core of your business, it actually helps you with the brand and the positioning and standing out because eCommerce is getting really saturated and it's hard to stand out. And these days having some connection with the customer that goes beyond just the transaction and creates a sense of belonging.
Community is really a game changer. And I think a lot of the women that I've seen in our community Excel at that because the very, seed of their idea was founded on something like a strong story or a mission.
Gen Furukawa: [00:06:57] Yeah, I'm still trying to figure this out because, and I think everybody in eCommerce is that acquisition costs are increasing. What used to be the playbook of using Facebook paid ads to define your niche, kind of like build that initial audience. Those costs are increasing. The competition is increasing.
So you have a lot of people that are selling similar products. Have you come across like a playbook that works for these prelaunch brands for how to find product-market fit and how to actually connect with their audience? If they don't have the budget to launch?
Dulma Altan: [00:07:35] That's such, I mean, that's the million dollar question, right? that's something I'm, haven't exploring too. I talked to as many people as I can. Really sort of figure out what the answer is to that, especially in 2020, but here's what I can tell you I've found so far. I think when you're on, when, when you're on a budget and you don't raise millions and capital from VCs, and you're still trying to stand out and break out in a saturated space. I think having some sort of authentic story at the core of the brand that really does help and more often than not. I see that being related to a personal pain point that that founder experienced themselves because especially when it comes to this might be true.
Or for women-owned brands, I'm not sure. But anecdotally, I think there are a lot of women owned brands that have the founder story at the helm of the brand story. And that actually helps a lot because people find it easier to connect to a human. And if you're an underdog, it actually helps you because people love cheering you on.
They see, they love seeing that journey that you're going through and they love being part of that entrepreneurial journey with you sort of vicariously. So I think. To answer your question. I think what helps is starting with a strong brand story. And part of that is a strong founder story. And what often creates a good founder story is some authenticity in how you came up with that idea and why you want to solve that problem.
Gen Furukawa: [00:08:59] And I think that actually dovetails nicely into what the main value proposition of joining Makelane is. So of course there is. The mentorship and the guidance and then the talks, but it's really about the community. And there's the emotional support that is super important. And I'm going through that myself.
It's like, "Oh man, this is really hard. I'd love to connect with other people who are going through this similar thing." But then also if you are targeting specifically women in the DTC, And I think maybe just from what I'm seeing from your branding and in your voice, and maybe some of the social media, it's millennial women.
And so therein is a target audience to start with. Is that maybe true?
Dulma Altan: [00:09:42] Yeah, I would say, I mean, I think it's easier to build community and to just practically speaking, it's easier to do what we're trying to do when we are focused about who we're targeting. Right. If we were just, we're trying to help everyone starting any kind of eCommerce business, it would just be a little bit harder to get off the ground because there are lots of there's lots of content out there.
There are lots of courses. There are lots of so called gurus. There are lots of, you know, random drop shipping or FBA bootcamps or whatever it is. And there are lots of those out there. what differentiates us is that we do have this focus, and also any commerce in certain pockets of e-commerce, I find that, the communities or the, the programming tends to skew more male.
Yeah and I mean, there are lots of great resources out there, but I think that leaves some women feeling like, Oh, I want to find a like-minded community. so it's helped us both practically, and I think it does just, cohere around more of a mission for us in that way.
Gen Furukawa: [00:10:36] Yeah, I think there might be two elements that would define success for DTC brands in the future. And I'm spit balling here, but I think as products become more, more similar, differentiation gets harder than I think the community is one. And then I think the media and the content that the brands put out is another differentiating factor.
what do you think about that?
Dulma Altan: [00:11:01] I think that's 100% true. I would almost, I'm sort of. model it out as a three, three pillar framework of commerce, and then you have community and then you have content and all of those sort of play into each other. I think some really good examples of that are, I mean, goop is one, obviously, even though they did start with star power of.
You know, Gwyneth Paltrow, but, but they've been able to execute on that. Well, obviously Glossier started with, media, there's Violet Gray. there are a lot of brands that just leverage that really, really well. And I think you're absolutely right. That's going to be the future because just products that's not going to be enough moving forward.
Gen Furukawa: [00:11:36] Yeah, Away brand might be one, but they sort of maybe more product. And then they add in the media part. I think it's called home a nice magazine.
Dulma Altan: [00:11:49] Away did that outdoor voices did that. I think Casper tried to do that. A bunch of them have tried to do that. I will say that, you know, the more sort of utilitarian or functional functionally innovative of a brand is with their products. I think the less, they need to rely on all these other pillars as much.
like if you're making something, like if you're inventing a widget that just really solves something better than any other widget out there, and that kind of speaks for itself. Whereas I think if you're creating something in a space that's super saturated, like beauty, like personal care, like, you know, apparel, whatever it is, then you really have to lean on some of these other pillars, I think.
Gen Furukawa: [00:12:26] Right. So what would that actually look like? Is that a Facebook group? Is that a really active Instagram thread or Twitter? Hashtag? Like how, how do you actually see people execute this if they don't have the big pockets of say Glossier or Goop?
Dulma Altan: [00:12:42] Yeah, I think that exactly, like you said, it's those two really help Facebook groups help. I think brands that can put in the energy and it does take time. It does take a lot of energy, but if you can put in that upfront time to really nurture a strong, engaged community, and that can be on Facebook. And in fact, people prefer Facebook because they don't want to have to switch to another platform then that can really pay dividends. I think if you do it well, and Instagram of course is big for a D To C. And so on Instagram, what that looks like is probably having your own hashtag that's fun and playful and makes people want to engage and share, responding to every single comment, DM'ing people actively like making sure you're a super responsive and creating meaningful, meaningful social interaction.
So the algorithm can, you know, give you a boost. So I think just, treating every single. Person potential customer, like somebody you really want to be having a conversation with like bringing them into the fold of your community and your ethos. I think that is part of what creates community. And it's just a lot of grunt work.
Honestly, it just requires paying attention to every single person and most friends don't. I think they either don't have the bandwidth, to do that, or they don't want to do that, but it, I think it really pays off.
Gen Furukawa: [00:13:58] Do you advise it? That's kind of like where. An entrepreneur would start in building the audience or do you kind of skew more towards let's get the product, right; let's start small. And then from there kind of build an awareness?
Dulma Altan: [00:14:12] I think 100% you should start with an audience, especially these days. I think you should start with an audience, especially if you're a bootstrapped, especially if you're a scrappy entrepreneur, who's probably solo or whatever it is. You don't have a lot of resources. You have to. You have to earn those early advocates and basically treat them like that, build relationships with them, get them excited, have them root for you, and then get them involved in the process.
And that can look like maybe you have an Instagram profile and you're sharing stories of what's happening behind the scenes. Maybe you're pulling people so they can help you choose which packaging to decide on. or maybe you're just, Asking them about their feedback on other, you know skin serums they've used and what they thought about them or whatever it is.
I think that kind of engagement helps not only with product development, it helps with, you know, idea validation and it helps build this audience of people ready to buy from me when you launch, because what a lot of brands do, and this is a common mistake is they think. You know, if, if I build it, they'll come.
If I have an awesome product, everybody's going to realize how amazing my product is. And then the sales are going to start coming in. But you actually, people underestimate how much effort you have to put into building an audience ahead of time. And right now that happens on social media and that happens on your email list.
Gen Furukawa: [00:15:26] Yeah, I'm right there at the moment myself. And you have been as well. I think with Potion, you're a fragrance brand and I think it's really cool that you, you did this and you created a niche a more high end positioning, I think, but can you explain a little bit more abouP what potion is and how you actually transitioned from there to Makelane?
Dulma Altan: [00:15:52] Totally. So I, I started potion. I, I had been working in Silicon Valley as a digital marketer. I worked at Google, but I always wanted to start my own thing. I loved. Cool D to C brands. I even wrote my senior thesis at Brown about Warby Parker fund. In fact, that's how much of DTC nerd I am.
and yeah, and so I, I always had a soft spot for interesting new brands and I wanted to start my own, but I didn't want to just start a business for the sake of it. Right. I'm not one of those people who feels comfortable. Saying, well, I want to be an entrepreneur, so I'm going to come up with a list of ideas and then just pick the one that seems the most viable.
I want it to be really authentic for, for better or worse. So I was waiting. and one day I was looking for a fragrance, a 100%, all natural fragrance to buy as a Christmas gift for a family member. And I realized I couldn't easily find it. There were all these ort of claims natural and nontoxic that I had to validate.
I didn't exactly know how to find the full ingredients list because for fragrance, there's an FDA loophole in the United States that says you don't actually have to disclose your ingredients. So that was really confusing to me as a consumer. And I consider myself a pretty savvy consumer when it comes to, you know, clean products.
so I realized, okay, there's, there's actually a gap in the market here because if I want clean beauty products, I can go to detox market. I can go to credo. I can go to cap beauty. There are all these different retailers now, if I want clean, you know, healthy food, I can go to. Whole Foods, or I can go to a Thrive Market or whatever it is, but for fragrance, granted it's niche, but it's not that niche.
It's, it's a several billion dollar industry globally. I couldn't find anything. And so I wanted to create a way for consumers to easily discover the best of what was out there. And I, as a consumer, as a fragrance lover, wanted 100% on toxic fragrances that were also luxurious, not just, you know, a really simple, essential oil blend, but something really complex and artistic.
so basically that was the idea I reached out to a bunch of brands made this giant spreadsheet of all these artists and perfumeries I wanted to reach out to, started calling the mailing them almost none of them responded back to me. So I eventually got connected to a woman who blogged about natural perfumery.
And, she was the only person who wrote actively about natural perfumery online. So I got on the phone with her and about 10 minutes into our call, she said, I love this. I want to be a partner. How can I help, let's do this together? And I was like, great. So she got the right brands on board, the brands that were not responding to me initially.
We're happy to work with her because they already had a relationship with her. we got it off the ground with 12 different brands and we just, offered a sampling program. That really was what helped us, you know, drive sales because when you're buying fragrance from a brand you've never heard of, you want to try their stuff out before you buy.
and that's what we did for two years. I bootstrapped it. you know, I would just use a lot of influencer marketing and guest posting and content marketing to drive sales. And that was a fun ride.
Gen Furukawa: [00:18:50] Yeah, that is really cool. It's still, the website is still alive and you still have inventory selling, but your focus is on Makelane?
Dulma Altan: [00:18:58] Yeah, exactly. I mean, there's a, there's a tiny bit of my time that goes into Potion still because we do have inventory. We do get sales coming in some times, but I'm really not trying to grow it at all. And ultimately it's, it's a really tough business to scale the margins in natural fragrance, the margins.
And you know, when people hear about my business, they think perfume has crazy margins. And it does, if they're synthetic in sort of the in big in the big perfume industry, if you want to call it that it's, perfume can be kind of a cash cow for these luxury brands, because not everybody can afford a Chanel handbag, but everybody.
Can everybody can once in awhile gift or buy a Chanel perfume. And so it's like that in regular perfumery, but not in, natural. So it was a tough business to scale. I learned the hard way about the importance of margins and AOV and CAC and all the things.
Gen Furukawa: [00:19:55] So you were buying from brands wholesale and then selling those same brands online. So you were, in some ways it's related to an affiliate model almost, or, or dropship model.
Dulma Altan: [00:20:05] was just a standard retail model. I was the retailer. I was buying, you know, standard. I was buying at their wholesale prices, marking them up 50%, which is pretty standard in retail and just selling them online.
Gen Furukawa: [00:20:18] Yeah, I agree. I think that's a really hard thing to convey a, because it is invisible, the quality of the product is invisible and then we've become so attuned, I think, to assume that fragrances are, even if they're toxic, I actually didn't know that they were toxic and I don't know exactly what they're doing to my body, but I assume that they're okay.
But in fact, maybe they're not, and maybe I'm just not an informed consumer, which I think is maybe part of the challenge, it sounds like is the customer education right?
Dulma Altan: [00:20:49] That was actually a really big part of it. And that was both the exciting part because it was an interesting challenge. but it was also difficult because there was a lot of education we needed to do, and sometimes people would wonder, you know, your fragrances are. I'm I'm paying more per millimeter than I'm used to paying for fragrance. And it doesn't, you know, generally project as far. and it doesn't quite smell like what I'm used to with my conventional frequencies. What's the deal. And so we would have to do a lot of upfront education around. "Well, the smells that you're used to there, they can be really harsh or loud or sort of, they can project really far because of these additives, because of these, you know, synthetic ingredients that maybe might cause sensitivities in some people."
and we just had to educate them a lot on why those ingredients were really precious and why the pricing was the way it was. So that was tough. So if I had to start an ecommerce business again, I would probably choose something where I didn't have to do quite as much education where I didn't have to sort of.
Try to justify the price point as much, because that was a big hurdle.
Gen Furukawa: [00:21:53] Yeah. You mentioned that you just kind of did some research and you knew that it was niche. Do you think that it was too niche that there weren't enough people looking for a nontoxic luxury fragrances?
Dulma Altan: [00:22:05] I don't think it was too niche, actually. I think the time was, is, and still is, perfect for this kind of a store or, platform. I just think that the fact that it's fragrance and people have to smell it, that's what makes it difficult. So if we had. theoretically, if we had more resources and had more of a popup model, kind of like Bloom Bras, if we didn't or popups, or if we had a pop in where we were located, we had a little space in another larger that was kind of complimentary to us.
or if we just. did more at fairs or, or trade shows or something. I'm not sure what it would be, but if we had more of a way to easily have people try out our products without having to constantly manage the logistics and the costs of our sampling program. I think it could have worked because when I went, you know, when we launched, a lot of people were super excited about what we were doing, because they had been looking for something like that.
People who are kind of savvy about clean products and clean fragrances or clean beauty or whatever, they actually are, we're aware already of that need, but they just don't know where to look and they don't want to have to do all the research and the legwork to figure out what's making false claims and what's not.
So, so I think the clean movement is part of what makes this a really great time for, Potion, but just the nature of fragrance is what makes it tick. Cool.
Gen Furukawa: [00:23:31] One thing. I think that might be interesting. I was reading an article. I think it was in Forbes about Prose. Prose is. No, they do custom shampoo. And so they go through this whole questionnaire, what your hair type is, where you live, because that affects your hair. How often do you do it, your whole routine.
And then you come up with a custom shampoo. They do the same with, Ipsy. Does it kind of like more beauty, but not specific to the product. And then there's, you know, companies like Care Of where they're doing vitamin specific. Right. And so that might be one interesting thing. Winc, for example, does a wine quiz to nail down what your specific pallate profile is.
And so, yeah, maybe, maybe like custom perfumes or fragrances. I think that that's not realistic necessarily, especially that it's so expensive, but one interesting way to create that like extra luxury.
Dulma Altan: [00:24:27] I'll give people listening three ideas for businesses that they could start if they want to. These are freebies. One is a subscription box for natural fragrances. kind of like there's one, it's called Scent Bird. but they don't do natural and natural is a growing. The thing that has a lot of demand behind it.
So that could be one option subscription box. The other one is a sort of like, almost like a, this is kind of corny, but I, I would love this as a consumer. It's almost like a DIY kit where you give it the fundamental building blocks, the ingredients and the essential oils and the base. And then you give them a few quote unquote "recipes".
Okay. And they get to make their own fragrance to their life. That could be both a fun sort of crafty thing, but it also ensure ensures that people end up with a fragrance that they really like, and that can be. You know, the ultimate signature scent, because everybody's always looking for their signature scent.
and the other idea is, more of an affiliate model. I think just, there's a website called Fragrantica and in the world of fragrance, that is where everybody goes to see reviews for other fragrances. And they, they actually make a lot on the backend from, their affiliate model. So that's something that people could do for clean fragrance.
Gen Furukawa: [00:25:36] That's awesome. I really liked those. And then in New York, there's this place called? I think it's, LeLabo something like that. Where, where they do high end custom perfumes.
thanks for those three ideas. I think that's great. And then I would love to hear your thoughts on the changing landscape.
So you have kind of this bird's eye view of e-commerce, from this group into a lot of the challenges that people are facing on a day to day basis, but then also what the opportunities are.
How do you see things changing in the eCommerce landscape and what are the areas of opportunity? for example, you know, you, you've probably seen this.
Rocketing graph of eCommerce as a percentage of right retail. And it's like accelerated a matter of years and just a few months since Colbert started. And so a lot of more people are going towards e-commerce for everything, whether it's just, you know, what they would normally do or their groceries or coffee or whatever.
are there any interesting trends or takeaways that you're seeing of how behavior is changing and how that impacts eCommerce marketing?
Dulma Altan: [00:26:41] Ooh, that's a good question. Well, I mean, There's the pre-COVID world. And then there's the postcode world, right? So in the pre COVID world, I would have to think about that in the post-COVID world. I mean, sort of the obvious answer is people are ordering things that, make quarantine a little bit more bearable.
So some of the things that are doing well among our community members, people are buying a lot of personal care products, things for the home. home workout related products. health and wellness related products. I think it still has. Legs. obviously it's more of a short term thing then than something that's going to keep trending up probably. and then in the pre COVID world, what I was seeing was, I was seeing a lot of pet brands. People are spending a lot of money on their dogs and on their cats. I was seeing a lot of CBD.
I mean, CBD is just doing really well and it baffles me because there are so many CBD brands emerging all the time. So it's almost, a little confusing to me how. You know, it's still lucrative, but I think from what I've seen it is. Those are the ones that come to mind right now.
Gen Furukawa: [00:28:10] Yeah, I I've heard the same from one of my friends who selling the CBD, that it is very easy to work with a wholesaler, but by the same token, it's easy and barriers to entry are low.
so I wanted to ask about, you're talking about profitability and unit economics, and you posted something about paid social media and email and how it kind of like how they work together.
And my question is about repeat orders or driving customers to a subscription model and ultimately the goal being to increase lifetime value. And then that helps out on the front end so that you can spend more to acquire the customers because the customer's worth more. Have you found that some of your brands are doing really well with some strategies or even just at a high level strategies to increase repeat orders and just generally customer success after the first purchase?
Dulma Altan: [00:29:11] Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, I think there's, I think there are more sort of commonly known strategies, like really dialing in your email marketing, making sure your email flows are, are there and that you're optimizing them over time. and I think just kind of trying to direct people once they buy your product for the first time or once they enter your email is trying to direct them to the places where you can start to build more of that feeling of community, like your Instagram, like your Facebook group or wherever it is. I think that's also important. yeah, I mean, I think there are just a lot of strategies around email marketing, mainly that I think people don't necessarily realize are super lucrative still because everybody's focusing on whether it's, you know, the newest, like Tik Tok as a platform or whatever the newest thing is. I also actually think SMS has been working really well for some of the brands in our community. There. Seeing a lot of results with SMS.
I think it's still a really good time to get high click through rates until it gets super saturated and people are sick of getting messages from brands, but that hasn't happened yet. So if you can pull that off, well, I think that's an interesting way. So finding different, more innovative, touch points with customers where you can keep that dialogue going and give value, not just, you know, not just sell, sell, sell, but really have more educational content, build more community. Just like we talked about.
Gen Furukawa: [00:30:40] Indeed. Yeah. The value is something that I was going to mention. Cause I'm starting to get more texts myself. I don't even know how these, I don't even know if it's the brand, get my phone number and I often just type STOP if it's just a pestering message. So I agree. You have a very limited number of bullets in the whole, sir.
And you want to use them sparingly and strategically before promo promoing too much.
So my last question is actually about books. And so on your website, you have a really good summary of books that you read. What is something that you recommend to the members of Makelane that, that's really helpful maybe for the very beginning or that that would be impactful for their journey as an eCommerce entrepreneur?
Dulma Altan: [00:31:26] Hmm, a great question. There are few business books or sort of creativity or business or entrepreneurship related books that I really like and recommend to everybody. there are two by the same author, Steven Pressfield, he wrote The War of Art and I think turning pro, and they're both kind of about the creative process, but I think a lot of the creative process can actually be, applied to the entrepreneurial process because in a way it is a creative process.
And the takeaway from that is. You know, if you want to do something, if it's sort of, if you have an idea or if you want to take the leap, go for it. don't yeah. You're thinking, just go for it and also be a professional about it. Really show up and eventually good things will happen. Then you'll either learn and you'll pivot or, you know, something will happen.
That's fruitful. Yeah. So I like Steven Pressfield for the mindset stuff, because I think, you know, we, we talk. People in eCommerce and in the world of business and startups, they talk a lot about the tactics and about the strategies and that all is important, but the mindset stuff is the foundation that makes it all work.
And it's the foundation that helps to manage yourself as a founder, which is so important. So that's why I like authors like Steven Pressfield. There's also, so the one thing by, I want to say his name is Gary Keller. And that is basically, I think they also, he and his coauthor also wrote Essentialism.
Basically the idea is know how to prioritize. I think when you're starting a business and I've been guilty of this, I still wrestle with this every single day, but there are constantly a million things to do and knowing how to manage yourself and your time effectively and knowing what to focus on when is so powerful, because it can be easy to get caught up in all these little things that don't actually significantly move the needle.
So that's another one that doesn't just apply to ecommerce, but it applies to everything. and then finally, I actually really like a book. I don't remember the name of it, but Derek Sivers, founder of CD Baby, which was, you know, a business that was started a while ago. he, I heard, I first heard his interview on Tim Ferriss's podcast and I really liked his sort of, contrarian thinking, but he wrote this very short, very skimmable business book.
That's just as contrarian as you would expect from him. And it's actually really good. It's kind of like Rework by Jason Fried if you've also read that. So it just kind of, blows up a lot of assumptions we have around business.
Gen Furukawa: [00:33:41] Yeah, those are great. Those are all actually along the similar theme. I think of yeah. Mindset and productivity. Gary Keller. I have it on my bookshelf. It's like, I think the, the standout quote is what's the one big domino, which if you do makes all things easier?"" And that's just one easy framework to remember is that you don't get caught up with a thing at the domino at the very end that won't really make a big impact, but that if you get the big domino, then the subsequent ones are far less important. And then Steven Pressfield, I think is the notion of the muse, right. Just sit down and it's not going to be easy, but you just gotta put in the time and this kind of supernatural Muse comes up and, yeah, that's awesome. Thanks so much for the thoughtful answers on the fly.
those are great, Dulma. This is really great. I really appreciate your time. Can we get a link that would be best, to learn more about you and me clean.
Dulma Altan: [00:34:39] Yeah, they can just go to makelane.com
Gen Furukawa: [00:34:45] Awesome. And then are you most active on Facebook or Twitter?
Dulma Altan: [00:34:49] I'm actually the most active on Instagram. And my handle is @dulmaaltan so people can DM me or follow me or whatever. Yeah.
Gen Furukawa: [00:34:59] Fantastic Dole. I learned so much. Thanks so much for having us or for speaking.
Dulma Altan: [00:35:03] Yeah. This is a pleasure.